but i have to say it is the only [ female noce yor r g eyes tt si th olhw. new generistyendh o time i gave advice, so i'm only 0 for 1. eaths the lookf li...f ne >> yeah that is better than 0 the rum thantly thic f lashes for 10, the leverage, you eaths the lookf li...f ne usonweek s to sometimes seriouslily, and jokingly, but also the campaign chain committee, a couple of groups were trying to get in on the process. the governor will do what they want. i don't have a beef with mo, i don't know how cool he is. it is pretty traditional to pick one of your former aides rather than go from the broader community. >> yeah, it does open up certain questions, but you can't see him standing there with that appointment and then not understand much of what the governor was thinking. i'll find out tomorrow night. he will join me tomorrow night.

and he will have to defend and explain this choice tomorrow night under my cross examination. so we'll see how the governor does with that. >> yeah. you raised another important point. is redud soum soup says ihe lower cholesterol, hoitk? you juste to eat iart ofr arthy diet stp 1. ehep. cool, not ol

♪ yomathinyou've all good evening. e %gumentfoanagains gay mage. i'm michael smerconish in here aew tonight for chris matthews. leading off, gun fight. wsre ndetectrom the pictures alone were dramatic. un former congresswoman gabrielle rgue iúfar of keepi giffords nearly killed by a bullet seated at the same witness table as the nra's wayne lapierre. defense of marriage act, >> you must act. me sexoudon't ed t be bold, be courageous. cluded in any lawsarng tritionamaiage. americans are counting on you. >> as the rest of the country comes to the realization, >> rec fr tg in reced that the gh-tecstarmericav÷ something must be done to prevent gun violence. the nra and the allies in the republican party are digging in. ft alligs ed siness likgole and we'll look at what president ersity, an iigray th obama can and can't accomplish on gun safety at the top of the program. way. vtures ofarnes plus does president obama want a deal on illegal immigration? which would be huge on his legacy. or does he want the issue hanging around so republicans all w posblcaus get punished at the polls by

latino voters. miants. >> look at intel. we'll get some answers tonight. and it may be last call for every one of those was founded the tea party. by, guess who? consider this. an immigrant. republicans with national >> mentions from the president ambitions claim they want tome to stop being the stupid party. conservatives are working with have gone to the cofounder of democrats on illegal instagram. immigration. finally, travels with and fox news parts ways with sarah palin. hillary, we've seen no shortage over the past four years. dana milbank says it's all evidence the tea party is losing all the same the secretary has steam and he's with us tonight. been game for the lighter moments of her job. plus the boy scouts of america are considering dropping their ban on gay volunteers and members. it's another sign of the >> can i put one on like you progress this country has made have over there? [ singing ] on gay rights. ♪ but not without controversy. and finally, is the most powerful republican in the se we'lbegin th the hearing on gun safety. rklaze and david corn the washon beau chief for magine. ♪ rk, le bin with you. >> things got musical on several re.

re there any spres odi different occasions. everyo py thl role then there was this photo shoot in hawaii with hong kong's chief >> the are certa aunt executive. and certaithere isn that was, in fact, a half thg like thi dressed torch bearing man uly ere s thir dashing behind them. agofivility. and then there was the speech d ere reeplica onhat commito tee wh featuring a knock at kim are not contl fare bns que thtfit and swed they jong-un. avitof t momt he >> time has honored so many and e open to renghe sue. national and global leaders. there's many i haven't had a chance to meet yet. more of formerongresswoman gabriee giffords' porful i was sort of hoping kim jong-un steaier today. would show up. speinis difcultt i i don't think he's here, but if you catch sight of him, let me know. we're still trying to figure out ne to thg important. what he's all about. vice is a big problem. too many children are dying. >> finally, we can't forget the clinton-approved meme texts from too many children. hillary like she's going to love we must do sometng. the new justin bieber visit video. up next, is it next for the it wil but the timis tea party that seems to be

losing steam? that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. now. u must a. be bol be courages. ank you.s are unti on >> d, what bught il that gabrile giffos wrote herselr te day's vience hearing. eypost were on e cebookr pac a founded the organizationh responlu her. he gave powerful testimony as we >> we believwhly and completely in the second amendment and cos own a firearm for protection, collection, and recreation. we take that right very seriously, and we would never, ever give it up just like gabby would never relinquish her gun

and i would never relinquish mine. but rights demand responsibility. and this right does not extend to terrorists. it does not extend to criminals. and it does not extend to the mentally ill. >> one more thing i want you to see. following this morning's testimony, gabby giffords and mark kelly met with president obama in the oval office. so david corn, i show you all that and i ask how can the momentum to the extent that momentum exists right now on the president and the white house side, how can it be maintained? how do you maintain that level of emotional testimony? >> well, it was quite an emotional moment watching gabby giffords get up there courageously and her husband who i've met in the past i have to say is damn impressive. he was a hero for going up in the space shuttle and now he's a hero for taking on this hard issue and doing it with such great aplomb. it's important, keep him and gabby giffords and the kids in

newtown, keep them in the spotlight. let them have the platform they want. the only way anything happens on the gun violence prevention front is if the intensity level remains on the side of people looking to change the status quo. you know, you know on the side of the nra and extremists on that side, there is already the intensity. it's always been there. they care about this. it's often their top issue. and for those who want to change and have some common sense solutions about high-capacity magazines and other provisions, you've got to fight that intensity with intensity of your own. >> but i -- you know, i agree with your assessment about the intensity, about the emotion. but still even in the face of it -- and mark you were there, you can speak to this. the nra not giving an inch. wayne lapierre got in a heated exchange with senators durbin and leahy over background

checks. and he made clear the nra would not give an inch on that issue. let's watch. >> we got to get in the real world on what works and what doesn't work. my problem with background checks is you're never going to get criminals to go through universal background checks. >> mr. lapierre, that's the point. the criminals won't go to purchase the guns because there'll be a background check. we'll stop them from the original purchase. you missed that point completely. i think it's basic. >> senator, i think you missed -- >> let there be order! >> i think you're missing it. >> please wait. as i said earlier, there will be order. >> and the chair of the judiciary committee patrick leahy also tried to pin down lapierre on the same issue. background checks. >> should we have mandatory background checks at gun shows? >> if you're a dealer, that's already the law. >> that's not my question. i'm not trying to play games here.

we've got to stop being the but if you could, just answer my stupid party. question. and i'm serious. >> senator, i do not believe the way the law is working now it's time for a new republican party that talks like adults. unfortunately, that it does any we had a number of republicans that damaged the brand this year good to extend the law to with offensive and bizarre comments. i'm here to say we've had enough of that. private sales between hobbyists and collectors. >> with all due respect, that was not the question i asked. nor did you answer it. >> welcome back to "hardball." for more than a year now, we've >> but i think it is the answer. seen stories asking whether the tea party was on its way out. and during all that time, it has only strengthened its hold on >> mark glaze, if we can't get the american party. it done on background checks but dana milbank provided a where the polling data i see great op-ed looking at notable suggests seven in ten americans events the past week that are supportive, what means suggests many republicans and assault weapons and clips will supporters are growing wary of be game? the tea party's grip on the gop. >> everybody should have to pass last thursday governor bobby a background check because they jindal from louisiana told the rnc it's time for the gop to stop being the stupid party. back passed background checks. i would not take this too seriously. this is people staking out their on friday fox news said thanks positions. but i think wayne lapierre would find it very hard to stick until the end of this process with the but no thanks to sarah palin. position of rejecting something that 70% or 80% of his base on saturday word leaked that actually thinks is a pretty good speaker john boehner had called

idea. so i think we can get background some of his own members hard heads. checks done. there's overwhelming support for it. and on monday john mccain and but there's also strong support marco rubio signed on to an for a limit on magazines and immigration proposal that's not also for a ban on assault all enforcement. rifles. it includes a pathway to but your initial question and citizenship for undocumented david's answer were exactly immigrants already in the states. right. this is only going to happen if dana milbank is with me along the american people make it happen. that means they have to call with joan walsh of salon. their representative, they have to write the white house, and joan, are you buying the demise they have to get behind the of the tea party argument that effort to make sure members are dana has made? hearing about this when they go home to their districts for recess. >> i would love to, but i think >> there was a heart breaking it's too soon. and dana says that himself. article in today's "washington all of these data points are post" by the parents of daniel real. barr don who called for action i guess the only one i would on guns. take issue with is the bobby jindal characterization. any improvement to our laws no i think bobby jindal remains, i matter how small or reasonable shall not be decried as the guess talks a good game but remains a conservative force and tea party force. forward wave of an attempt to ban guns or take away rights. even though who have lost the because he's trying to do away most are suggesting no such with personal income taxes. thing. and he wanted to eliminate hospice care for medicaid that's the argument i hear when patients. i go to radio listeners. so this perspective on spending it's the slippery slope. that the tea party brought if we give an inch on this, they'll come for everything.

certainly hasn't gone away. >> like if you put a speed limit on the highway, pretty soon anytime you've got 36 united they're going to take your car states senators who voted down away from you. again, this issue has been demagogued by people just like wayne lapierre and his allies sandy relief a couple days ago, that any common sense limitation means your gun's going to be you know that something has fundamentally changed about the swept up by helicopters. one comment they made today over and over again, wayne lapierre way that republicans talk about and people on his side, is that we already have existed gun laws and they're not being enforced effectively. government. >> right. so i think it's too early to say >> but one reason why they're that they're dead, but all the things dana points to are good not enforced effectively is signs and signs of some kind of because the nra and republican sanity seeping in. >> and dana, maybe it's all in a senators have time and time name. because i think what continues on for sure is this conservative domination particularly in again tried to defund and republican primaries. i mean, here you've got mitch mcconnell being threatened now handcuff the bureau of alcohol in kentucky and next year's election from the right. >> right. and the tea party's never really tobacco and firearms and been an organized political force. and i'us anything else they can do to get shorthand for the r ting the pay right now. and as i point out in the in the way of enforcement. so there is just so much column, that force really isn't demagoguery and hypocrisy on going anywhere because of the redistricting, because of the that side that keeps the flame way things are structured in the house. and because of this primary going, we have to just keep trying to -- like the op-ed you system.

just quote, have to keep dousing those flames to try to get some we also have saxby chambliss of these modest limitations. >> and the epidemic continues. bowing out rather than face a primary challenge. meanwhile gun violence continues the element of the party is day in and day out. going to be dominant for some time to come. is the tea party isn't over, but just yesterday 15-year-old hadia what i think you have is some of pendelton shot in a park not far from her high school. the more sober revelers in the tea party are heading for the she was in washington with her high school band where she exits because they realize this performed in the inaugural heritage music festival. thing is getting rowdy and the mark glaze, another criticism i police are showing up and it's going to get ugly. hear from those that don't want i think that's what's going on any change to gun laws, if you here. people who are interested in 2016 who realize the party has to change are growing a bit of bravery right now in saying we take all that being discussed can't continue to tolerate this. >> well, let's take a look at and you apply it to the mass shootings that have been so much a part of the news, they would where the tea party stands among not have prevented those americans. incidents. cnn opinion research poll taken i'm sure you've heard and deal with that. what's your response? this past november shows the tea >> well, it's true in some cases. i mean, no law you pass is ever going to stop killing. party has a 50% unfavorable there are at least 300 million guns in the country and the nra rating. that's double what it was in 2010. meanwhile the tea party's is largely responsible for that. so it's true you're not going to favorable rating has pretty much stop everything, but this is stayed the same. i think dana makes a great point what you do with laws. when he talks about partisan districts.

you close the loopholes you can. by doing that you can make an enormous difference. all these mass shootings are mass because of a high-capacity 435 congressional districts in magazine and assault weapon the country and really only 35 involved. of them are in play. well, those that are held by republicans are still going to have this influence in them regardless of whether we refer to them as the tea party types. the tucson shooting probably did happen because loughner's >> that's exactly right. records were not the the you know, i call it criminal background check data base and should have been. >> mark glaze, thank you. gerrymandering. david, i've got to run but thank you as always. i'm fine with that word. what you're seeing is those districts people are only afraid we appreciate you being here. of a challenge from the right. they don't have to fear centrist coming up, would president republicans. then you have the states that obama rather get a deal done on immigration or let the issue fester who the republicans continue to get run at the polls are solid red states like by latino voters? this is "hardball," the place for politics. georgia, for example. you could have a paul brunn. and iowa will be another one. does steve king somehow emerge to sadly, tragically, somehow take tom harkin's seat? or does someone come out with the nomination because iowa is not a red state. it's certainly purple. but in the red states like kentucky and georgia and in the really red districts, you're still going to have this extremist view about government and about spending and also

about immigration. i'm really curious to watch this unfold and see the education of marco rubio and whether he is hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. doing this to appear centrist, you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. appear reasonable but quickly backs down to the forces of reaction? or whether he perseveres with you always do what they tell you? this and really tries to get no... something done. try it, and see what your good driving can save you. >> well, let's not forget the you don't even have to switch. tea party aligned folks such as christine o'donnell, ken buck, unless you're scared. plus todd akin who i guess is a tea party candidate but was in i'm not scared, it's... spirit only. they all lost senate elections you know we can still see you. no, you can't. pretty sure we can... that should have been slam dunks try snapshot today -- no pressure. for the republicans. the gop needs to be careful. because they want to keep that as part of their constituency. massachusetts governor they just don't want them running the show, i guess is duvall patrick has named a place what i'm trying to say. holder to fill the senate seat >> right. of john terry. and if you put together all of those candidates that you just he'd be the second mentioned and these were all african-american in the senate. safe seats for the republicans in the senate. tim scott of south carolina, had they won those seats, they another appointee is the other. would be in charge today. they need it to harness the it's the first time in history that two african-americans have served in the senate at the same time.

in selecting cowan, governor energy from the far right but patrick passed over former congressman barney frank who not be taken over by it. openly lobbied for the job. cowan will serve until april i think a lot of sensible voices 30th when massachusetts voters in the party are saying we've will choose someone to fill out the remainder of kerry's term. got a problem here. we'll be right back. if we want to win again, we've got to do something about it. yet they've structured the system this way so that all of their members are just terrified of losing in a primary far more than they are of defying the will of the american electorate. the problem is going to be here for a long tile. but you're seeing the chris christies, the marco rubios, and the bobby jindals beginning to say we've got to change something. >> and joan walsh, briefly, the gop cannot afford them to form a libertarian effort of their own. that would be a death nail for the gop. >> right. and chris christie isn't a libertarian, so the strains they represent, too, are different

strains of the republican party. but the republican party needs to hold together to be a national party. i don't think that's going to happen. but if those voices of slight reform get completely muddled, something will happen. >> thank you very much. dana milbank, congrats on what you wrote. up next, the boy scouts are considering dropping their ban on gay scouts and scout leaders. but not everybody's on board. that's ahead. this is "hardball" the place for politics. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

>> it's a matter of republicans and democrats coming together and finding a meeting of the minds and then making the case and, you know, i'm hopeful that this can get done and i don't think that it should take many, many months. i think this is something that we should be able to get done certainly this year and i'd like [ male announcer ] why do more emergency workers everywhere to see if we can get it done trust duracell...?? sooner in the first half of the duralock power preserve. year. locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. now...guaranteed. duracell with duralock. the president's approach is very trusted everywhere. similar to what a bipartisan group of eight senators called for earlier this week.

now the question is can something get done? the big rig is on life support. will republicans in the house be gop officials in key states are taking a stand against rigging willing to vote yes on a bill that includes a pathway to the electoral college system in favor of republicans. citizenship for millions of immigrants who are in this rick snyder says he's against any scheme that would split votes. country illegally? that could be a hard sell. and in ohio there are no plans many republicans say president obama is all too happy to let the issue fester and watch as to push the plan in the buckeye state. their party continues to struggle with hispanic voters. earlier this week virginia's governor and attorney general however, politico's mike allen said they were against the idea. and florida officials nixed it. says that doesn't pass the political smell test. that leaves pennsylvania and quote, this is one of the few wisconsin where both governors have yet to rule out tinkering political mysteries that has an with the electoral vote. unambiguously correct answer. we'll be right back. top demes tell us if president obama is going to have a big legacy accomplishment this term, it has to be immigration. so he's making an historic test of whether the campaign machinery can translate to governing. joining us is howard fineman and

nia-malika henderson. nia-malika, let me begin with you. what's your answer to the question of the president's true objective here? >> well, i think his true objective has been what it always was. even going back to 2008 when he campaigned on the issue of comprehensive immigration reform. obviously wasn't able to get it done in his first term. gave a bunch of speeches that essentially laid out the same thing he laid out yesterday, th the present's an?ho yhe borrs av political fight in 201 now secure? do you put troops dog erhead what stistwillou u a but ther ith is sequen it's eathat pple enfced and pred ot?usse

d at's wrehe sck pot'going toe.esident's narr this men forraphic s giving histate of e ess aham ncn'biayth of n issufor this buaifoth generat thinsothing he vermu res abou let talk abother si othe e.says he republicwaar rs irrelency.v toy la wt's at  t ry s eplica iledo untand siift eehe rtcef this i to ou an voter. a eleo of if youavlargblock erans whbeevc taissue with that mode onheir voters.4 inngofle, we're back. here's what lota of it could soon be the beginning of a new era for the boy scouts of america. quote litics is t the group's board will decide thro oy e rushinto next week whether to allow gay

scouts and scout leaders among vo is y mistaktino their ranks reversing their long-held ban. ilare low skd m my guest tonight james dale took on the scouts in a case that went to the supreme court which in 2000 decided the boy scouts e ar it ey'll dend o were allowed to refuse gays including dale himself. to the nionareviewhat pu also with me tonight nbc's pete williams who broke this story immiation beromney o earlier this week. gosell oeplyd welcome to both of you. pete, what's the latest? coinbump is this is a done deal? up t33 >> seems like it. people we talk to that both i'surprise tse support and oppose this move who have been briefed by the scouts particular by and scouting insiders all tell us they strongly expect it will th of the uaresed, pass when the board meets in s en this attet some rublicao change t texas next week to talk about not waing th tissu this. ing fo u wh's hnilook a what it would do, michael, is remove the long-standing national membership the hoside, eyy requirements. ed 20 or spuics to it could leave it up to individual organizations to backs bior i rougth to rngax. decide for themselves. k e hehithat some may well say we want to you're seeing ishethis admit them. some may say they don't. ch.e people and the scouting organization says parents and sponsored could decide for themselves which one

thought w they want to send their children to. it has support within the board, stesn the rms of latino they say, and they strongly expect it will pass. >> james dale, is that enough for you? >> thank you. it's a great first step, but i don't think they should kick the polation dowthere.reblanartylo o can down the road. you can't have children in one group thinking that discrimination is acceptable and scouts in a neighboring group to their pad lookg at the changiicng dem think it's unacceptable. owd,he ss gh r onpublan natobio habeen inahod i think that nondiscrimination needs to be top down as well. >> what i didn't realize until reading up on this subject over the last couple days after pete broke the story is the president iove o i thin's of lds and catholic church within scouting. e alt efore .1thatis animmediate stfoemt ver materia and it would seem to me, mr. dale, neither of those are going >>k perrannewtgric8 in a direction you would like. >> i think it's interesting whether it's those two churches or inauguration last week, gottungn in the america has evolved. prarpress theytepped outñ this isn't the america from 23 years ago when my case first >> id.coul started. but this will fi himself a nnal gure.ers nobt i think there's a lot of evolution that has gone on.

016. he's going tth wiheang of eig?b and a le >> let me put up the scout oath, if i might. but s. ink he's tnkg he's a big tial and you certainly know it by ay. heart, i'm sure. t also tof n prome on my honor, i will do by g midwest to do my duty to god and my country, and to obey the scout law; to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake. 'sumenbiherg ack to the here is the key part, and morally straight. ma. pete williams, when i tell my sons that they're going out of the house and i want them to be onev, peap bu on the straight and narrow, or if i were to refer to pete williams as a straight arrow, i'm not referencing sexuality at we'lo all. back at her ghtentme from the outside looking in, one and ou looks at the scout oath and all,th wonder how did this ever become a conversation about sexuality? >> well, and of course the scouts would tell you, and they made the same claim during james dale's case before the supreme court that they don't mean that straight in the straight or gay context. it's the morally they're focusing on.

by the way, what the supreme court said in mr. dale's case is the scouts have a first amendment right to who will speak for them. that's they're right because it's a private organization. other have said the scouts have a right. this is a decision by the scouts. they claim that it is not just top-down. they're very prominent member, ceos on their board who said they want to change this. but they say it's come from the ranks and chapters as well. >> i certainly believe that this has come from the ranks and file. but i think what is most interesting, they went to the united states supreme court for first amendment shield for new jersey's law against discrimination in 1999. so now that they're saying that they don't stand for anti-gay discrimination, and that gay is not immoral, i wonder if that kind of calls the whole legal issue into question again. are there going to be new lawsuits? i think the best thing for the boy scouts to do to prevent other people from finding themselves in a situation like i was 23 years ago is just do it

once and do it the right way. >> james, i had a fellow call my radio program yesterday, as a matter of fact, a guy who identified himself as being gay and said that he has two sons in scouting, which raised an interesting question of what applicability does this have to parents. hopefully none. but it brought out the issue of at eight years old, do they really know their direction? i mean, how could this possibly be enforced if it has a sexual connotation? >> i think the enforcement that is taking place is self-destructive. i think what they're doing is teaching young kids, whether they're gay or not that gay is immoral and that it's harmful. i think they're sending a really bad message. i think the better question is are they still going to be relevant if they don't catch up with the times. >> hey, pete williams, correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this a subject of agreement in the recent presidential cycle? weren't president obama and governor romney both on the same page that scouting should be open to all? >> yes that. >> both were. they both said so during the

campaign, that they thought that scouting should change the view. and i think, michael, what i've seen in the last couple of days in response to the reports about what the scouts are going to do is, you know, a feeling all over the map. some who feel as james does that this doesn't go far enough, some who welcome it, though. there are many chapter, even some associated with churches who have been saying they welcome this new policy. they probably will admit gay members. and then there are other organizations that you referred to earlier who probably won't. so you're seeing a response across the spectrum. >> james dale, we ought to find out next week, i guess. just ten seconds left, but this ought to come to some fruition next week? >> i definitely look forward to it. and i really hope they'll do the right thing and just do it once so the scout troops can move on beyond sexual orientation and get back to scouting. >> thank you for that. thank you, pete williams. thank you, james dale. >> thank you. >> you bet. when we return, let me finish with the most powerful republican in the u.s. senate who could be taken down by his own party. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up

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let me finish tonight with this. sometimes 90% just isn't good enough. ask mitch mcconnell, the most powerful republican in the u.s. senate, who despite that lifetime approval rating from the american conservative union is now out of step with some kentuckians on the right. a recent courier-journal bluegrass poll of register voters found twice a many promising to vote against mcconnell than those supporting him.

and only 34% of republicans said they would support him against all competitors. some in the bluegrass state are clamoring for a primary challenger for mcconnell. mcconnell's supposed misstep? the positively audacious acts of helping to craft the 2008 wall